President William C. Massey called the MCCC to order at 7:15 p.m. on the unseasonably hot evening of May 9, 2000. In spite of competition by a Baltimore Orioles baseball game and a drawing for the multi-state "Big Game" lottery (offering a few hundred million dollars), 31 loyal MCCC members were present, including one Young Numismatist (YN) but no first-time visitors. (Please invite friends and relatives, especially young people, to come to the next MCCC meeting.)
The meeting's opening included a near brush with disaster: we had no American flag for the Pledge of Allegiance. After some confusion, the Pledge was deferred for a few moments. MCCC Director Ed Russell rushed out and returned bearing a fine flag, which all saluted. Huzzah!
The Gold Raffle prize was an Australian "nugget" coin, face value $15 (0.1 oz of 0.9999 pure gold) kangaroo design dated 1999. The raffle was won by Richard Jozefiak.
The Bison Chip drawing winner was Mike Dolnick; this is his first "leg" toward the three needed to win a proof silver eagle. (Note: you must be present to win.)
Julian began on a personal note by introducing his charming wife Fran and by reporting on the status of his consultant, MCCC member Irv Eisen. Irv had multiple bypass surgery on his heart that very morning (9 May 2000) and is doing well. (All the best to you for a speedy and complete recovery, Irv, from the members of the MCCC!)
Mr. Leidman noted that he had just returned from a major coin show, the Central States Convention in Minneapolis the previous weekend. (At that convention Fran had bought him the US currency-theme necktie that he was wearing.) Alas, that show had poor attendance, perhaps only about 2200 people. Dealers spent a lot of money to be there, and many were disappointed.
Mr. Leidman urged everyone in the MCCC audience to go to the big ANA 2000 Convention in Philadelphia, if only for a day (though 2-3 days is better, in his judgment). There will be "a ton of things to do there." A special tip: since room space is going to be tight, people may wish to try the newly opening hotel in downtown Philadelphia; ask "Carol" at the Delaware Valley Coin Co. for information.
Mr. Leidman held a magnifier to his eye and evaluated Kermit Smyth's 1927-D quarter (see "May Exhibits" above). In Julian's experience, this coin is extremely difficult to find circulated. The rubbing visible on the breast and leg of Ms. Liberty is probably not from use, but rather due to random rubbing in a roll of coins or bag. So Julian's opinion is that MS-62 is a reasonable grade. He noted that the value of the coin is identical to that of a choice AU-58 specimen. This is a good example of where numerical grading breaks down, Julian commented. "It's not technically uncirculated, but it has never been used as money in my opinion."
Moving on to current events, Mr. Leidman observed that "... since I last saw you, State Quarters have really rolled out." The commemorative quarter program has definitely gotten the public's attention. Many folders are selling for those who want to save these quarters, and Julian has seen an estimate that over 100,000,000 people are now collecting them.
The big question remains: what will State Quarter collectors do next? Will they graduate to other coins? The general coin market is not as good as last year, in Julian's experience. Y2k purchases were significant in 1999, but those hoards have come out for sale during the past few months. "There aren't as many collectors as there are collectible coins right now," Julian remarked --- and how long it may take new collectors to mature is, he feels, unanswerable right now. He does expects that it will happen within the next decade or two.
Many people are collecting State Quarters for their children & grandchildren, and think that they will be worth a lot some day. "They're wrong!" Julian said. "You have to pay a premium for them in nice condition right now," but they will not rise to fabulous values.
Commenting on the Alexandria Coin Club's show in Prince William County (described above by Richard Jozefiak) Julian suggested that it was successful in part because it took place in a somewhat isolated area, where there are no coin stores nearby. It may be more challenging to have such a successful affair in Montgomery County.
Remarking on other trends in numismatics, Mr. Leidman said that during the past year currency has become increasingly exciting. There are many new paper money collectors "across the board." Small-size American currency has changed from an "Ugly Stepsister" to very popular; the same holds true for National Bank notes and other paper. World coinage is also of interest to many new collectors. Julian sees many young people, for instance, spending time enjoyably digging through the "six-for-a-dollar" bin at his store. "I actually sell more world coins [than anything else], although they're very inexpensive...."
"But there just aren't as many sophisticated collectors as there once were," Mr. Leidman said. The silver boom has passed, and there aren't enough new people now to support the inventory as old collections are being liquidated. There's no glamour to investing in coins --- "Which is healthy; I really don't think there should be speculation in coins."
But there are still plenty of hucksters around. "I had a cold call today from a telemarketer," Julian remarked (to much laughter from the audience). The fellow was trying to sell common-date New Orleans mint Morgan silver dollars, and of course what Julian needs for his business are truly rare specimens. The salesman went on with his prepared message in spite of all that.
At this point Mr. Leidman asked for questions and comments from the audience. Don McKee (MCCC Auctioneer and long-time collector) offered an unsolicited endorsement and personal thanks to Julian. Don said, "A year ago I was on the fence about what to do with my Morgan collection, which I've been accumulating for 30 years. Nobody in my family wanted them. I had phone calls from Heritage, Bowers, [and other auction houses] but was puzzled as to what to do. Based on Julian's last talk, I gave [the coins] to him [for consignment sale]. He's had them since November, has sold perhaps a quarter of them, and is doing well." Don then added, "When you're getting ready to dispose of your collection, you'd better be mighty d*mned patient!" He suggested that a good collection ("something up into the five figures") could go to auction or to a dealer such as Julian. Each has advantages; the dealer route offers more flexibility and more privacy, but takes more time. Income taxes are one's own responsibility.
Kermit Smyth asked, "Isabella quarters have more than doubled in the past year --- what's going on?" Julian replied that they have been the subject of promotional campaigns, as the "first commemorative quarter" and that prices have shot up in the lower grades. "You'll see same thing for 1932 Washington quarters and the 1976 Washingtons," he predicted. These are tied to the State Quarter enthusiasm, perhaps.
In response to a question by Richard Jozefiak, Julian commented that there is now a lot of coin promotion going on with much exposure on TV, in magazine advertisements, etc. The prices that those sellers charge are far too high, Julian pointed out, but then they have high overhead expenses. He often has to disappoint people who come to Bonanza Coins to try to sell material that they've purchased from such promoters, since the coins are often not worth very much. But on the bright side, promoters do offer coins to many people who are in isolated parts of the country, far from mainstream dealers, and they do perhaps bring some new people into the hobby.
Julian prefers sophisticated numismatists for customers. "I'd rather come to this meeting," he said. "This is one of the better clubs Nationwide." (thanks!) Returning to the Isabella quarter issue, Mr. Leidman noted that they are quite scarce (total mintage only about 24,000) and that he has some nice ones in higher grades at his shop.
Re the Internet, Julian said that he has "entered the computer age myself". He took a course with Fran Leidman last summer, has a machine at the store, and runs a Web site. He hasn't sold much via the Web yet, but he has gotten quite a few inquiries, which he treats the same as phone calls and tries to answer helpfully. The cost of maintaining the web site is about the same as going to a coin show for him, so Julian is sure that it will pay off in the long run.
"The Internet will definitely play a part in the growth of numismatics," he said. The public did get abused in online auctions in the beginning, but it's getting better. Mr. Leidman has had some success in selling via major auctions (e.g., Heritage and Teletrade) on the Web recently. And numismatists have lots of computers, more than many segments of the population. On the downside, "I work seven days a week" handling Internet issues --- somewhat to Fran Leidman's annoyance, needless to say.
MCCC member John Huffman asked, "What are the Central American [shipwreck] gold coins being cleaned with?" Huffman expressed grave doubts over the potential long-term damage being done to the coins by chemical processing. Julian replied that the coins he has seen in holders don't seem to have been abused, and that in his opinion liquid cleaning using solvents that don't harm the coin's metallic surface is OK. But this is definitely a complex issue. Limited dipping to remove unsightly tarnish is reasonable and is not a negative cleaning, and similar processing to take away oceanic encrustation seems all right, he feels. That's different from rubbing which damages surfaces.
"Unfortunately I never took chemistry, and science was not my strong suit," Julian confessed with a smile. He suggested that this whole issue may be an excellent topic for a Numismatic Theater at the ANA convention, perhaps called "Cleaned or Not Cleaned?" Since only time will tell, Mr. Leidman asked the MCCC to "Invite me back in 15 to 20 years to decide this!"
Scott Helmick inquired as to how the newer grading services have been received by dealers. Julian replied that although the vast majority of coin dealers depend on grading services, "I do not send in coins for encapsulation. I am in a tiny minority. It's just too inexact; it's a game now." Dealers crack out coins and resubmit to get higher grades, Julian said.
He added, "ICG has a great idea in that they are blind-grading coins; they don't know who is submitting them." ICG also doesn't charge when they return coins ungraded. "They have my respect. But their opinions aren't any better than PCGS or NGC."
Finishing up, Mr. Leidman took a closer look at Scott Helmick's Treasury Department (IRS) award. "This is really quite a medal ... a fabulous piece," he said. "Eventually your grandchildren or great-grandchildren may ...." He left the sentence unfinished.
Julian Leidman's home page is http://www.juliancoin.com. The MCCC audience gave him (and Fran Leidman!) a strong round of applause for the superb presentation.